Autocar's Sutcliffe on the supercharged Evora: "I’d have one over a Cayman"
#12
11-05-2010, 07:46 AM
explain my logic? Porsche sells thousands of cars to Lotus's a few hundred.
Clearly the numbers speak for themselves.
For the Evora; you need to think like MOST of buyers out there in small buyers pool. For $85k usd, what can I get?
A LOT OF OTHER CARS that do FAR more then what the Evora does. Driver involvement? The Evora has a shifting linkage out of a Toyota pick up truck. Ya, that's a lot of engineering. The same power plant that's found in a Camery or ES350. Whoa, hold me back on the engineering. I'm underwhelmed.
Is it a cool looking car? Yes, sure it is. But does it stick out to be a real value for 85k?
No.
I'd rather have a 360 Modena if I didn't want a Porsche. Hand built engine with tons of heritage poured into the car. And oh btw
IT'S A FERRARI!
Not a car tossed together with a Toyota Engine.
Next?
Clearly the numbers speak for themselves.
For the Evora; you need to think like MOST of buyers out there in small buyers pool. For $85k usd, what can I get?
A LOT OF OTHER CARS that do FAR more then what the Evora does. Driver involvement? The Evora has a shifting linkage out of a Toyota pick up truck. Ya, that's a lot of engineering. The same power plant that's found in a Camery or ES350. Whoa, hold me back on the engineering. I'm underwhelmed.
Is it a cool looking car? Yes, sure it is. But does it stick out to be a real value for 85k?
No.
I'd rather have a 360 Modena if I didn't want a Porsche. Hand built engine with tons of heritage poured into the car. And oh btw
IT'S A FERRARI!
Not a car tossed together with a Toyota Engine.
Next?
You have a fair point on the Toyota sourced parts. Yes, they weren't engineered specifically to be used in this application. But you're assuming that it's a bad thing. The Toyota GT-One has a Toyota engine and it was a spectacular race car. Supra, LF-A, MR2 Turbo, should I go on?
You also assume that engineering effort translates directly into a better car. According to Porsche's sales and marketing people, of course this is true. But that's BS. The two are related, but not directly. There are plenty of well engineered cars that are boring to drive, and plenty of poorly engineered cars that are fun to drive (Classic British cars, for example.)
I'll even agree that at $85k is expensive compared to the closest competitor, IF you can call the Cayman/S the closest competitor. Maybe the base 911 is a better comparison. But either way, value is relative. This car isn't worth $85k to you, and a 911 isn't worth $78k to me.
There's obviously no reasoning with you, so forget it.
#13
11-05-2010, 08:19 AM
diskreet, I think the point STOPPIE is trying to make is that at this price point, the Evora is a horrible value compared to the Porsche. Even the base Evora has similar specs to the Cayman while commanding 911 money. The kicker is that Lotus didn't even develop their own engine like Porsche did. Using off the shelf Toyota engines doesn't do anything to bring value to the car. If anything, that should bring the price DOWN.
#14
11-05-2010, 08:28 AM
Cayman/Spyder for me all day. I drove the Evora and thought, while the steering and feel are great the car is slow and uneventful.
#15
11-05-2010, 04:49 PM
diskreet, I think the point STOPPIE is trying to make is that at this price point, the Evora is a horrible value compared to the Porsche. Even the base Evora has similar specs to the Cayman while commanding 911 money. The kicker is that Lotus didn't even develop their own engine like Porsche did. Using off the shelf Toyota engines doesn't do anything to bring value to the car. If anything, that should bring the price DOWN.
*DING DING DING* give that boy a prize.
Thanks for 'listening to me' Alex!
#18
11-07-2010, 12:42 AM
Loyal customers will love this car and they will buy it. It's also a little more exotic than a 911. Aesthetic appeal is subjective but for me, seeing the evora next to a stock 911 turbo didn't do much for the porsche.
And this whole argument over the value of the car compared to a 911 blah blah. . . . the elise is an amazing car for what it is, and it costs, what, 60 grand? There's a shitload of better built and more capable cars out there for that price. Does that mean the elise is an inferior piece of engineering? I don't think anyone whose ever driven one would say so. I don't think the State of California would have hired them to do engineering research if they were a sub-par car company.
That being said, I do think the evora is overpriced, but so is a cayman, a boxter spyder, a 135i, a 911, a panamera and the list goes on. I've driven probably 90% of the cars available for purchase in the US, and if I were in the market, I'd take an Evora with 70 extra hp over a cayman any day.
And this whole argument over the value of the car compared to a 911 blah blah. . . . the elise is an amazing car for what it is, and it costs, what, 60 grand? There's a shitload of better built and more capable cars out there for that price. Does that mean the elise is an inferior piece of engineering? I don't think anyone whose ever driven one would say so. I don't think the State of California would have hired them to do engineering research if they were a sub-par car company.
That being said, I do think the evora is overpriced, but so is a cayman, a boxter spyder, a 135i, a 911, a panamera and the list goes on. I've driven probably 90% of the cars available for purchase in the US, and if I were in the market, I'd take an Evora with 70 extra hp over a cayman any day.
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