Like i said..if there is no way to have a legal tire without those markings, i guess they aren't road legal then.

I expect Pagani to make a proper press release on this issue.

lets see

PS
I want that jacket

 

I'm sure Mr. Pagani was aware of everything. No doubt a record Top Gear would generate extra publicity, which benefits Pagani and Pirelli.
Remember that the Zonda R carries a sticker with the lap record alongside the Nurburgring record. It will be strange to see that sticker on the Huayra, after the debate generated here. No fan wants to see in this situation to Pagani, but I can not cover the sun with my hands, the information provided is not enough. They have underestimated the casual spectator, but the work of Mattjs33 prove otherwise.

A fan of Pagani

 

Wanted to highlight that comment as it is EXACTLY the same thing I was going to say.

Also one to commend Matt on his efforts here in spite of all the rebuking he's gotten from certain members of the forum whose opinions on the subject throughout this thread seem to have been clouded by their love (borderline fanaticism maybe?) for Pagani. Really guys - the evidence has been quite clear since Page 3 or 4 at least...


You know, I like Paganis too. I've been through the factory, met Mr Luca Venturi (who I also felt was very kind and accommodating), and even got myself a copy of 'Story of a Dream' signed by Horacio while I was there. It was a great day and I came away more impressed than I already was with the cars for sure.

All that said, this is a low point for Pagani in my eyes. Those who refuse to acknowledge this fact by now should think on it a little more.

I believe that Top Gear should strongly consider discarding the time they recorded or at least put a very big asterisk on the board beside it since the Huayra likely gained approximately 2 seconds thanks to the use of this special rubber. Otherwise similar concessions are going to need to be made for every other car which might be able to put a real challenge towards the Pagani's time in the future - 918, Venom, P1, Enzo-replacement any others that might come along. If not, the Power Lap leader board quickly begins to become irrelevant. To truly alleviate the problem (and yes, this IS a problem, despite 'just being a TV show' ) the Huayra needs to be retested with the tires they are fitted with at the time of sale - the same ones every other person has had the opportunity to drive it on - for the time to be counted. It is that simple.

It's very clear by now (even by their own admission) that they used a non-legal slick racing tire with a tread pattern that was hand or machine cut into the tire in order to give the impression it was not a slick. The tread compounds of racing tires are not directly comparable to street tires in how they perform, especially with heat in them. Cutting a few lines in them will compromise their performance by a very small amount, but does not change that. Pagani would not have gone to the trouble of having them made and fitting them to the car if they did not expect a performance advantage. As far as I am concerned Pagani have made a conscious decision to plainly cheat here in order to generate massive publicity from the Top Gear track time they knew it would earn them. It gets worse in my opinion since their press release clearly stated the car was wearing it's original equipment tires which they have also admitted was for the purposes of 'marketing' - how embarrassing to need to say that now.

Even with the egg all over their face they are apparently still claiming these tires were 'road legal' which is frankly an insult as it simply can't be true, even in Europe. You may get away with using them on the street, but that does not mean they have been approved for road use by any particular government agency or that Pirelli would sell them to anyone as a street legal tire. This is becoming laughable really and I'd like to think that Pagani will eventually correct that claim as well or that Pirelli, as a technical partner to Pagani, would come out and clarify their position with some official info.

I believe this is unlikely to be a tire we ever see another set of in any situation, and certainly not a tire that any Pagani will ever leave the factory on unless it is a dedicated track car like the Zonda R.

Speaking of that - has anyone ever seen a Zonda R wearing these special tires used on Top Gear? The Zonda R I saw the day I visited the factory was wearing a much more normal treaded tire, but a decidedly different one then we're talking about here, and my visit just occurred last May.



>8^)
ER

 

Top gear crew are really stupid for letting this pass them or were they paid by pagani to make it happen.
I really love pagani and i was in a time a pagani proud owner, but cheatting like that wow. I cant trust them anymore

 

Matt (and others involved regardless of stance), thank you for making this the most intriguing thread I've read in quite a while.

What's even more fascinating is the realization that the world has become so small, so transparent and social, that comments on an enthusiast forum can affect the words and actions of companies and brands we love, across multiple countries, in a matter of days.

I feel like we should take a poll to see whether or not TG will run the Huayra on street legal Corsas by the end of the season.

Bravo Matt. Peloton, I'm glad you chimed in because reading Matt's posts remind me of the thoroughness consistent with your posts regarding the F1.

 

I quickly went through this thread and both sides may be right, but I wanted to add something different. I have seen you noticed existence of the tires on attached photos, but I had them on several cars, e.g. Z4M Coupe and 997 C2S. And I still use them on 911.

They are one of Pirelli PZero Corsa semi-slicks (no System, no Direzionale, no Asimmetrico etc., just Corsa), they are completely street legal and usable, they are e.g. far better in wet than they look. For me they are the best semi-slicks ever and I made a little stock for me when their production ended.

So they are not produced anymore, but they are still street-legal. And the tires used by Pagani look the same. I noticed the DOTs, but it doesn't mean much itself. It may be slicks with hand-cut grooves or so either, but not necessarily.

Just to add some facts, I think no one can be 100 % sure about the truth...

 

Your comments are appreciated, but not helpful.

It is recognized that Pirelli used to produce a road legal tire with that tread pattern - that has already been discussed in this thread. The fact is, that tire was never made in sizes that would fit the Huayra. More importantly, it is very clear that the basis for the tires seen with this tread pattern that were fitted to the Huayra was a set of slick tires typically found on the Zonda R. It is that slick tire's much more favorable compound that made using it appealing, and for that same reason gave the car an unfair advantage which should cause it's Power Lap time to be discarded.

No one here is saying there can not be a road legal tire with that aggressive tread pattern. That's really not part of the debate.

>8^)
ER

 

How embarrassing.

 

Peloton25: I went through this topic only quickly and I was not sure it is really clear that Corsas with this tread pattern were really ever sold, used... I saw only some old official pictures. So I wanted to add that they were sold and there are people who still use them. Nothing more.

I do not discuss the rest, I am just not convinced. Pirelli is an Italian company and so is their offer - you can not ever be sure they did not produce those Corsas in those dimensions as the offer differed every year and they were produced in very limited numbers. I was ordering them via local director of regional franchise, normal dealers did not even know about them.

I am not defending anyone, I am quite sure Pagani wanted to look the best in the Top Gear test and they could be cheating. And the time is to good to believe... However, if a tire is or is not street legal is much a formal matter and the tires they used could be "street legal" even if Pirelli produced only one set of them...

 

Supposition about what Pirelli might have done does not help the discussion. At this point only some very interesting facts that refute all the existing data can resolve this in Pagani's favor. Especially when you mention Corsas, which Pagani very clearly said in their response were not the tires that were used.

The sizes stamped on the sidewall of the tires used during the Huayra's Power Lap match the Pirelli competition slick tires, not the format used for their road tires. The outer band of the tire has the pattern of dimples found on their competition slick tires for use as wear markers, not traditional wear bars that are required on road legal tires. Finally the time recorded speaks for itself - the Huayra was unlikely to be that fast without some enhancement and special rubber makes complete sense.

I think at this point the final answer needs to come from Pirelli as Pagani's credibility has been too badly damaged on this subject.

>8^)
ER